what do you think that says to men and
你认为这对男人及其价值意味着什么？
their value where the only way they get
他​​们获得性爱的唯一方式
sex is if they pay for it how do you
是付钱。你
think that makes a man feel in terms of
认为从内在价值的角度看，这会让男人感觉如何？
his intrinsic value that the only way I
我
deserve to be loved is if I buy it
值得被爱的唯一方式是 我买它
just because they don't realize what
只是因为他们没有意识到
they're doing doesn't mean that they're
自己在做什么并不意味着他们
not doing it who's they men
没有做它他们是谁
it's a comedy show
这是
with the same person we're just in
同一个人的喜剧节目我们只是
different bodies at different times
在不同的时间处于不同的身体中
[Music]
[音乐]
I believe in positive masculinity I
我相信积极的男子气概，我
don't spend much time with people who
不会花太多时间和那些
have a massive problem with men I'm
对男人有严重问题的人在一起，我
really looking forward to meeting a
真的很期待遇到一个
professed man hater or somebody who
自称讨厌男人的人，或者一个
wants to take me to task over that
想因此责备我的人。
I'm here to debate a macho toxic male
我 在这里辩论一个大男子主义的有毒男性，
I'm anxious that he'll just stereotype
我担心他会对我产生刻板印象，把
me and see me as this hysterical woman
我看作一个歇斯底里的女人，
angry feminist social justice Warrior
愤怒的女权主义者，社会正义战士
type person he'll just want to shut down
类型的人，他只想关闭
everything that I'm saying let's go meet
我说的一切，让我们去面对
this Andrew Tate [\h__\h]
这个 Andrew Tate dickhead
okay
好吧
could you just tell us what does toxic
你能告诉我们什么吗 有毒的
masculinity mean to you
男子气概对你来说意味着什么
I don't believe in the concept of toxic
我不相信有毒的
masculinity I just don't as long as
男子气概的概念我只是不相信只要
you're not standing up against sexism
你不反对性别歧视
you're perpetuating patriarchy so for me
你就是在延续父权制所以对我来说
toxic masculinity is like the idea that
有毒的男子气概就像
men can't express more vulnerable
男人可以的想法' 表达更脆弱的
emotions and this anger that they hold
情绪，他们
within themselves that they then end up
内心的愤怒最终会
exploding outwards it can breed hatred
爆发出来，这可能会滋生
towards women
对女性的仇恨，
the the way you were did that I think is
就像你那样，我认为这
absolutely part of the problem there's
绝对是问题的一部分，这里有
two conversations here there's a
两个对话，一个是
societal conversation and then there's
社会对话， 然后是
individual men and actually when you've
个人，实际上，当你
got 94 of the prison population being
有 94% 的监狱囚犯是
men when you've got 86 of the homeless
男性，当你有 86% 的无家可归
population being men when you've got
者是男性，当你的
suicide rates as 75 men I struggle to
自杀率为 75% 时，我很难
see how this system is truly is
理解这个系统到底是怎样的
supporting men I'm not saying that
支持男人，我并不是说
they're conscious of it and just because
他们意识到了这一点，只是因为
they don't realize what they're doing
他们没有意识到自己在做什么，
doesn't mean that they're not doing it
并不意味着他们没有做，他们是
who's they men
谁，男人，
all of them definitely
他们所有人，当然，
okay men miss out on so much because of
男人错过了 因为
the amount they work yet it's looked at
他们工作量很大，但
that we're getting the good end of the
我们却得到了很好的结果，
stick with yet we're dying of heart
我们却死于
disease we're chronically obese we're
心脏病，我们长期肥胖，
unhealthy we're unfit and we're
我们身体不健康，我们体质虚弱，我们
literally working ourselves to death
真的 我们通常都在拼命工作，
generally but because we earn more money
但因为我们赚的钱更多，所以
it seems like we're winning
我们似乎在赢。
I think you're agreeing with me more
我想你比你想象的更同意我的观点。我
than you think you are
I don't get why it's called toxic
不明白为什么这被称为有毒的
masculinity and I don't get why it gets
男子气概，我不明白为什么
LED at the feet of they as in men no I
在他们脚下得到 LED，就像男人一样，不，我
don't understand that but Fidel men have
不明白，但菲德尔男人
created this system you're talking about
创造了这个系统，你说的是
women do worse in the world that we live
女性在我们生活的世界中表现更糟糕，
in the whole Saudi Arabia example women
在整个沙特阿拉伯，例如女性
aren't allowed to drive there women have
不允许
to get a male guardian's permission if
如果女性想离开这个国家，必须得到男性监护人的许可，
they want to leave the country but
但
actually here in the west it's really
事实上在西方，女性也受到了严重的
[\h__\h] up towards women as well the
歧视，这种
really Insidious sexism that happens
阴险的性别歧视
every day on such an unconscious level
每天都在无意识的层面上发生，
that is really dangerous towards women
对女性来说是非常危险的
one example is women getting free entry
举个例子，女性可以免费进入
into clubs I really hate that right
俱乐部，我真的很讨厌这个权利，
because that's commodifying women and
因为 这是将女性商品化，
actually the only reason women are
实际上女性可以
getting free entry to clubs is so that
免费进入俱乐部的唯一原因是，
men go to those clubs because they want
男性去这些俱乐部是因为他们想
to sleep with the women these women
和女性睡觉，这些女性
aren't being hypnotized and being told
没有被催眠，也没有被告知
to go in there for free and have the
可以免费进入并
drinks I've met you know they spend to
我见过的酒你知道他们花钱
get in the club whether they get sex at
去俱乐部不管他们在晚上结束时是否能做爱
the end of the night or not no it's not
不这不是
their decision what do you think that
他们的决定你认为这
says to men and their value where the
对男人和他们的价值意味着什么
only way they get sex is if they pay for
他们做爱的唯一方式是 如果他们为此付钱，
it
how do you think that makes a man feel
你认为这会让一个男人
in terms of his intrinsic value that the
从他的内在价值角度感受到什么？
only way I deserve to be loved is if I
我值得被爱的唯一方式就是我
buy it
买它
if you listen to a woman and you give
如果你听一个女人的话，你给
her love then you'll get sex
她爱，那么你就会得到 性
don't look anything like little
看起来一点也不像
mushrooms you get out in Somerset
你在萨默塞特出来的小蘑菇
we open the direction of
我们打开了方向
direction of we're offering
方向我们提供
the breath of our hearts
我们心灵的呼吸
return to the South
回到南方
这是一场喜剧表演
what are your thoughts on toxic
你现在对有毒的男子气概有什么看法？
masculinity now
I think that kind of like divisiveness
我觉得这有点像
of these topics is
这些话题的分歧是，
I think that's
我认为那是
set and I'm going to get there you know
固定的，我会到达那里，你知道
it's definitely like made me feel really
这绝对让我感到非常
emotional like
情绪化，就像
the sadness of it you know the
它的悲伤，你知道
triviality that we're all running around
我们都在
bickering about our differences and
为我们的分歧争吵不休，并
trying to get each other to see
试图 让彼此看到
everybody else's perspective and stuff
别人的观点和
like that and so much time is wasted
诸如此类的事情，做这些事情浪费了很多时间，
doing that
when you smile at me I realized that you
当你对我微笑时，我意识到你明白了，
get it
you another iteration of my friends and
你是我家乡的朋友和家人的另一个化身，
family back home you're just them in
你只是他们的
another body and you're also me in
另一个身体， 你也是我在
another body but like at a different
另一个身体里，但就像在
stage of my journey
我旅程的不同阶段一样，
and also you're going to be me as well
你也将是我，
because time isn't a thing
因为时间不是问题，
the whole gender thing isn't a thing
整个性别也不是问题，
either because regardless of what body
因为无论什么身体
we're in right now with the same person
我们现在和同一个人在一起，
we're just in different bodies at
只是在不同的时间处于不同的身体里，
different times
I think I had quite a big
我觉得我当时有一个非常
kind of clarity moment on that one it
清晰的时刻，它对
was quite defined about masculine and
男性和女性等都有了相当明确的定义，是
feminine and stuff and
yeah gender not so much but certainly
的，性别不是那么多 但肯定
there was elements of masculine and
有男性和女性的元素，
feminine this understanding of beauty
对美
and strength and how it all works
和力量的理解，以及这一切是如何运作的
together and how we all have that mix of
我们如何将两者融合在一起，
of kind of both and
然后
it all came undone under there to put it
一切都被拆开，
back together again so it's not about
再重新组合起来，所以这不是要
stopping what I'm doing but definitely
停止我正在做的事情，而是要
change changing the way the way that
改变
it's done and the language that's used
做事的方式和语言
around it and the type of conversation
围绕它使用的以及
that I think we should be having on the
我认为我们应该就我们
subjects as we're talking about we need
正在谈论的主题进行的对话类型，我们需要
to just look at it from a
从更高的角度来看待它，
a higher perspective
it felt that queer on these two parallel
感觉这两个平行的
Journeys like different ones but very
旅程就像不同的旅程一样，但非常
very similar I felt like we were in it
非常相似，我感觉我们就像是
together didn't it yeah definitely I
同舟共济的，对吧？我
felt like you were really looking out
感觉你真的在
for me
照顾我，
oh oh
哦哦
[Laughter]
[笑声]
I was really conscious of the fact that
我想我
I'm so much younger than you before I
之前就意识到我比你年轻很多
guess I felt a bit patronized yeah that
我感觉有点被人瞧不起，是的，这种感觉很快就
just melted away I was like
消失了，我觉得
nothing's awkward nothing's embarrassing
没什么尴尬的，没什么难堪的，
what even does it mean to feel
被人瞧不起到底意味着什么，
patronized
because
因为
there isn't that separation everyone's
没有那种分离，每个人都
just at a different point
处于不同的阶段
and and I felt your kindness and I
，我感受到了你的善意，我
realized that you weren't being
意识到你不是 你不是在
patronizing you were just being patient
居高临下，你只是在耐心等待
and I just realized it doesn't matter
，我刚刚意识到 没关系
you don't need to worry about anything
你不需要担心任何事情
all going to be okay not going to be all
一切都会好起来不会一切
is okay right now fear is Just an
都会好起来现在恐惧只是一种
Illusion death doesn't exist money
幻觉死亡不存在金钱
doesn't exist
不存在
and Life's a comedy show are women worst
生活是一场喜剧表演女人是最糟糕的
drivers
are women worst drivers
I think ah [\h__\h] man no come on
我觉得司机是女性最差劲的司机啊妈的，不要来
oh
哦